In conversation with Mavuso Msimang - Ramaphosa's unlikely internal critic who thinks losing power may fix the ANC

Mavuso Msimang (80) is among a thinning group of ANC veterans who left SA in their youth to self-exile during Apartheid. In his case, working in Tanzania for the armed wing Mkonto we Sizwe after a year's training in Moscow studying how to create home-made bombs. The career public servant, conservation icon and inaugural chairman of Corruption Watch, is currently chairing a presidentially-appointed task team to advise on ways to cutting bureaucratic red tape. Msimang hit South African news headlines this month after calling for president Cyril Ramaphosa to step down over the Phala Phala scandal, the first high profile member of the 'good' ANC to adopt this stance. He explains why during this in-depth conversation with Alec Hogg of BizNews.com, airing the even more controversial view that losing power in the 2024 National Election may be the best thing that could happen to the ANC. Until recently it was inconceivable that the century-old political party losing a majority in SA's Parliament enjoyed since the country's first democratic election in 1994. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices