| 00:11 | Hello and welcome |
| 00:11 | to Standard Bank CIB Why She Leads podcast, |
| 00:15 | and I'm so pleased to be having a |
| 00:17 | series of conversations with some of the most |
| 00:19 | inspiring women dealmakers. |
| 00:21 | We're going to be finding out |
| 00:23 | what it takes to get into the investment banking space, |
| 00:25 | the obstacles these women have had to overcome, and |
| 00:29 | whether or not they find that elusive balance |
| 00:31 | between their personal and professional lives. |
| 00:35 | These women are changing the face of banking |
| 00:37 | and inspiring generations that come after them. |
| 00:41 | Joining me today is the Executive Head of Public Sector and Infrastructure. |
| 00:45 | A wife, a mom, a powerhouse, |
| 00:48 | Zen Dlamini, thank you so much for your time today. |
| 00:51 | Thank you. |
| 00:52 | What would you say to your 18-year old self now? |
| 00:56 | The 18 year Zen, |
| 00:59 | I'd say to Zen, you've got it. |
| 01:03 | You have all it takes |
| 01:07 | to take on anything and everything that you dream of. |
| 01:12 | The sky's the limit. |
| 01:14 | Just go out there, grab it. |
| 01:16 | Believe in yourself. |
| 01:17 | Never, ever doubt yourself and focus on everything |
| 01:23 | that you put your mind... set your mind on. |
| 01:26 | So if we're looking at where you are now and the position that you occupy, |
| 01:31 | can you just give me some insight into how you got there, especially |
| 01:34 | for someone who's watching, who thinks this is a difficult space to break into? |
| 01:38 | I wouldn't say obstacles. |
| 01:40 | I don't call obstacles, obstacles. |
| 01:43 | I call them tests. |
| 01:45 | You know, you have to think about things in a positive way. |
| 01:52 | So banking, banking is quite broad. |
| 01:56 | It's split into various segments. |
| 01:58 | You've got your retail banking, you've got business banking, |
| 02:02 | and then you've got CIB, which is the most desirable for everyone. |
| 02:09 | I know that a lot of people have tried to get into Corporate Investment Banking, |
| 02:13 | but it's just been an uphill battle. |
| 02:16 | However, back to my statement, |
| 02:19 | you know, if you want something so bad |
| 02:23 | and you put your mind on it and you focus, you will get it. |
| 02:27 | There are other various considerations |
| 02:30 | that you need to take into account. |
| 02:34 | You first need to understand the space you want to get into, |
| 02:37 | and you need to connect with the people that are in that space |
| 02:42 | to make sure that this is exactly what you are looking for. |
| 02:45 | So you can't just say, I want to be in Corporate and Investment Banking. |
| 02:48 | You need to understand what CIB stands for. |
| 02:51 | You need to understand the value proposition because CIB is big as well. |
| 02:55 | It’s got various segments within itself and you need to know |
| 02:59 | where you need to land because you could be in a product area, |
| 03:03 | you could be in risk, you could be in the support areas |
| 03:06 | or you could be frontline where I am and do the most, |
| 03:11 | you know, like you bring the bacon home, you changing things, |
| 03:15 | you’re changing the face, and you bring in everyone together. |
| 03:18 | So it's really about knowing what you want |
| 03:22 | and understanding what you're going for and connecting with the relevant people |
| 03:28 | and making sure that you find the right sponsors for yourself as well. |
| 03:33 | Who's done that for you? |
| 03:35 | That said to you, you're a diamond, |
| 03:39 | you can do this, let's go. |
| 03:41 | A lot of people have done that, Alan has done that |
| 03:44 | for me. |
| 03:45 | Bill Blackie, who's the CEO at BCB, |
| 03:50 | has done that for me. |
| 03:52 | Kenny has done that. |
| 03:56 | I'm thinking just outside of our space, |
| 04:01 | like various other women have done that |
| 04:04 | for me, |
| 04:06 | and my husband, and my husband tells me, |
| 04:10 | you know, and I actually think I don't believe in myself anymore. |
| 04:14 | He says, yoh! My gold, never. |
| 04:17 | You know, you are the best thing ever the world has ever seen, you know. |
| 04:22 | So when I go to bed, I could have, like, |
| 04:25 | a lousy, lousy day, you know, like when I get home, |
| 04:28 | I know that I actually do have this sounding board. |
| 04:33 | I have someone that will say to me, you, |
| 04:37 | you are the best. |
| 04:38 | When I wake up in the morning. |
| 04:40 | Hello. You are the best. Remember that. |
| 04:42 | You know, and I walk tall because of the support, you know, and I'm grateful, |
| 04:49 | and I always talk about gratitude for me, |
| 04:52 | I have gratitude, you know, and I always talk about waves of abundance, |
| 04:57 | you know, like I use affirmations, you know, |
| 05:00 | like one of my affirmations this year was like waves of abundance. |
| 05:04 | And in another month it was like a gratitude |
| 05:08 | because I remember to count my blessings. |
| 05:11 | So, yes, I've had a number of people actually remind me |
| 05:15 | that this is your worth, you know, like you're doing great. |
| 05:19 | You spoke about having people who know more than you, |
| 05:23 | having people who can guide you. |
| 05:25 | What's the importance of a mentor, especially if you're navigating the space |
| 05:29 | that seems quite overwhelming or challenging to get into and thrive? |
| 05:35 | Yeah, you've |
| 05:35 | got mentors and you've got sponsors, |
| 05:39 | so some find you, some you find. |
| 05:44 | To have a mentor |
| 05:46 | means that you've got a sounding board, |
| 05:48 | means that you have like a professor, for lack of a better word, |
| 05:53 | outside of varsity or teacher at school. |
| 05:57 | To have a mentor means that you have someone that will tell you |
| 06:01 | when things are not going so well and you believe that, |
| 06:05 | I've reached the end of the road, |
| 06:06 | and then they remind you that, remember, you have a personal positioning |
| 06:11 | and you have to stick to your personal positioning. |
| 06:14 | When changes come, they should not derail you. |
| 06:17 | You know, you need to take them, accept them with an open mind |
| 06:23 | and with an open heart and a clear mind, |
| 06:26 | trusting that every step that you take |
| 06:30 | is actually your true path, |
| 06:32 | and your purpose. |
| 06:35 | So they remind you of that. |
| 06:37 | So there'll be changes. |
| 06:38 | You go into a corporate space, |
| 06:41 | you are employed by this boss, and the boss leaves or they get promoted |
| 06:46 | and then a new boss comes in and they are not exactly what you signed up for, |
| 06:51 | but you didn't sign up for it because you signed up for the role, |
| 06:55 | you signed up for the franchise and you cannot be derailed |
| 06:59 | because this is something that you need to move on to the next level. |
| 07:02 | And when you sit with your mentor, |
| 07:04 | these are some of the things that they help you with to say, |
| 07:08 | stick it out. |
| 07:09 | You know, maybe you could help, you know, because the new boss is coming to your |
| 07:13 | space as well. |
| 07:15 | What are the things that you're going to do to help them, you know? |
| 07:18 | And give them that comfort and then so that they understand that we are a team |
| 07:23 | because they need to feel like they are part of their team as well. |
| 07:26 | The mentor will help you with that, you know, |
| 07:28 | because they've got the expertise, they've got the experience, |
| 07:32 | and then they understand you. |
| 07:33 | And when you're feeling down and out, you can pick up the phone like |
| 07:37 | at 12 o’clock at night, I’ll phone my mentor and say, “Hey, It's not happening, Baba!” |
| 07:42 | And he says, “Yes, it is happening.” |
| 07:44 | Reach within you Zen, inside. |
| 07:48 | and you've got the answers because they're not giving you all the answers, |
| 07:52 | they’re just guiding you. They're helping you, |
| 07:53 | and then when you off-ramp, they'll take you back to the freeway. |
| 07:57 | You've spoken about Alan Mukoki |
| 08:00 | and the role that he's played in guiding you in your career, |
| 08:04 | so I’d like to play you something from him. |
| 08:06 | Hi, there’s a lot to say about Zen |
| 08:10 | first and foremost, Zen you’ve a special character. |
| 08:13 | without any doubt, works very hard |
| 08:17 | gets things done, |
| 08:19 | aggressive, but in a nice, polite, respectful |
| 08:23 | kind way, full of humour all the time. |
| 08:26 | Takes care of people, laughs a lot in terms of |
| 08:30 | creating a very positive environment when it comes to working with people. |
| 08:36 | So I ran into Zen and I think that we worked together |
| 08:40 | various stages of our careers throughout the years, |
| 08:44 | and I think at some stage we were all together at Nedbank. |
| 08:49 | and I think that she was the relationship |
| 08:51 | person manager reporting to a regional guy |
| 08:54 | who used to report to a senior guy who used to report to me, |
| 08:58 | and I'm making that statement, because one Saturday evening |
| 09:02 | after 10 p.m., I'm receiving this call from Zen. Alan, Alan what's going on? |
| 09:07 | Zen why are you calling me so late at night, she didn't care about jumping |
| 09:10 | all these people that she used to report to. |
| 09:12 | She came straight to me to say, Hey, I understand that my application |
| 09:15 | went through and you're the one that we are waiting for, who’s signature we’re waiting for. |
| 09:21 | And I really, really need to get a decision. |
| 09:23 | I said, Zen do you see what time it is now? |
| 09:25 | It's after 10 p.m. on a Saturday. |
| 09:27 | What kind of client is this |
| 09:28 | Who’s calling you after 10 p.m.? |
| 09:29 | She says Alan you’re not going to understand. |
| 09:31 | I really, really, really need to get an answer. |
| 09:34 | And she was really doing it with a lot of respect and kindness |
| 09:37 | and obviously apologised for calling me on a Saturday evening. |
| 09:41 | Be that as it may, obviously, I checked my information |
| 09:44 | and I actually signed off on the transaction, |
| 09:48 | and I think that from then on I knew that Zen was always going to do well. |
| 09:51 | She was always going to push for customer service, but she would do it |
| 09:55 | with a level of diligence due to her skill and care |
| 09:58 | and do it in a way in which she didn't necessarily, you know, |
| 10:03 | create conflict or a bad environment in terms of the world of work. |
| 10:07 | You know, I think that she has huge doses of emotional |
| 10:10 | intelligence takes care of people and cares a lot about people, |
| 10:13 | while she's very pushy, but she's able to push in a way |
| 10:17 | that is a soft power type thing and take care of the business. |
| 10:22 | and I knew Zen was always going to do well. |
| 10:24 | And throughout that period when we were all together at Nedbank, |
| 10:27 | she was always showing up amongst all the top performers, |
| 10:30 | you know, the people who get the awards and the reward would be to go overseas. |
| 10:33 | and Zen was always there, and I knew that Zen was always going to do well. |
| 10:37 | So wishing Zen the best of luck. |
| 10:39 | and whatever she touches, I know that she will do exceptionally well. |
| 10:43 | Thank you. |
| 10:45 | Oh, Alan. |
| 10:46 | He knows me. |
| 10:47 | Ha, ha, ha! |
| 10:49 | You want that deal, you get the deal, |
| 10:51 | and I'm sure Sim can attest to that. |
| 10:55 | I'm sure the board |
| 10:58 | can attest to that, you know, |
| 11:01 | because it's for me, it's |
| 11:04 | it's always about |
| 11:06 | making that impact. |
| 11:08 | I look after public sector |
| 11:09 | and public sector is |
| 11:12 | the most exciting |
| 11:15 | and scary portfolio for obvious reasons. |
| 11:18 | I mean, you think about |
| 11:22 | the Zondo Commission, the Mpati Commission, |
| 11:25 | everything that has happened in the public sector space, |
| 11:29 | you think about SAA, we were the main bankers for SAA, by the way, |
| 11:32 | and when I took over the role of |
| 11:37 | Executive and I was assigned this portfolio, |
| 11:40 | how I moved into that space Nzinga, let me just say |
| 11:43 | I had said that I'm bored from product, |
| 11:45 | you know, I wanted something quite exciting |
| 11:48 | quite different, because I always referred to myself as an octopus. |
| 11:52 | I've got eight limbs, |
| 11:55 | and I want each limb to work, |
| 11:58 | and when three, four, five, are not working, |
| 12:02 | I feel very paralyzed and I cannot be paralyzed, |
| 12:05 | of course, this is Zen, I have to be out there. |
| 12:08 | And I said, I'm looking for something quite different, |
| 12:10 | and I think I'll do it in client coverage |
| 12:14 | because you can be an octopus. |
| 12:17 | And then when you reflect back and then you look at some of the things |
| 12:19 | that you've done, some of the things that looked very impossible |
| 12:24 | and you've delivered on, |
| 12:26 | you realise that it's not so much of an effort it’s the ability |
| 12:31 | to put people together and to change, to change the narrative. |
| 12:36 | When you speaking about changing the narrative, |
| 12:39 | when you walk into rooms now, boardrooms, people listen to you |
| 12:44 | because you occupy a powerful position, you have a powerful disposition. |
| 12:49 | It wasn't always like that, though, I imagine in your career, |
| 12:53 | how did you make sure in your early days |
| 12:56 | that your voice was heard even when people didn't want to hear it? |
| 12:59 | So I liked your first question, |
| 13:01 | when you asked me about what would I say to an 18 year old Zen? |
| 13:06 | It's really about |
| 13:07 | being authentic and having conviction, |
| 13:10 | but you have to understand what you're talking about, |
| 13:13 | you know, you have to appraise yourself of the environment that you are in, |
| 13:18 | if you're operating in specific industries, |
| 13:20 | you need to understand your industries. |
| 13:22 | And I'm going to digress a little bit, |
| 13:24 | you know, |
| 13:25 | you know, men have a tendency |
| 13:28 | of knowing what to say to exclude women, |
| 13:32 | and, you know, you could be sitting in a setting |
| 13:36 | could be an event, like an intimate event, |
| 13:39 | and then they think, hah, okay, let's have a man conversation, |
| 13:43 | then they start talking about soccer, |
| 13:45 | you start talking to them |
| 13:46 | about their story and what they thought yah, we will protect our space. |
| 13:51 | And then you walk in there and then you talk about it in such a way |
| 13:54 | that they’re thinking, is she a woman is she really a woman? |
| 13:59 | Yes, of course! and then I've got my blonde hair, |
| 14:01 | you don't need to ask those questions, |
| 14:03 | but you need to be able to switch across, |
| 14:06 | you know, you need to be able to hold conversations |
| 14:09 | like proper conversations, you know. So conversations are not just about |
| 14:13 | your hair, |
| 14:15 | or about the style, what you wear, conversations are real, Nzinga, |
| 14:21 | you know, like, what is the world going through? |
| 14:24 | you know, you need to understand what is the value that you |
| 14:27 | bring in. |
| 14:28 | So for me, I’ve been lucky enough |
| 14:31 | you know to spend time with boys and to understand |
| 14:36 | what is it that matters, you know, |
| 14:38 | to boys. |
| 14:40 | And then we look at the girls and I’m like, mmm! she’s not caring enough, |
| 14:42 | or, mmm! |
| 14:44 | I think she's smart, oh, she's tall, okay, |
| 14:46 | she's too short, you know, and they start thinking, okay, fine, |
| 14:49 | she's a part of us, you know, and they look at me like that. |
| 14:54 | But in business, you really need to understand your subjects. |
| 14:59 | You know, like the disciplines that you deal with, |
| 15:01 | so that when you walk in |
| 15:03 | and there is a debate about the discipline, |
| 15:07 | you dominate and you lead. |
| 15:10 | And you have conviction. |
| 15:12 | You know, like you have to have conviction because you've done your research, |
| 15:16 | you've covered everything, and then you can talk to that, you know, in detail. |
| 15:21 | So when you start doing that, |
| 15:24 | it's not |
| 15:25 | necessarily a tag, but they’ll know... you know, most of my male colleagues |
| 15:31 | would say, |
| 15:32 | she knows her s..t. |
| 15:33 | But what they actually mean is, she has that value to add. |
| 15:37 | You know, they will call me. |
| 15:39 | What are your thoughts on this? |
| 15:40 | You know, not necessarily just in government. |
| 15:42 | So you make a difference, you know, by bringing in the value and being authentic |
| 15:49 | and having conviction, so authentic, your conviction |
| 15:53 | and, you know, your discipline and you can go into any boardroom |
| 15:57 | because you're going to discuss what you understand very well. |
| 16:00 | You can talk about the value chain, you can talk about options, alternatives |
| 16:04 | and you are open to any other idea. |
| 16:08 | It's not just about what you bring on board, |
| 16:10 | but when someone brings in something that is different, |
| 16:13 | you actually leverage that and you bring it in. |
| 16:16 | That's how you actually open up the space. |
| 16:19 | And I've had to build that, you know, over time, |
| 16:23 | leveraging the likes of your your Alan, |
| 16:26 | leveraging various other ladies. |
| 16:30 | I've learned over time that actually it's about knowing what you're talking about |
| 16:35 | because it gives you that title of she's, |
| 16:39 | she's an expert. |
| 16:46 | There's a story, |
| 16:47 | Yeah. |
| 16:47 | About when you were starting your career, |
| 16:50 | you in a boardroom, |
| 16:51 | Ha, ha, ha! |
| 16:53 | you don’t have to say where |
| 16:55 | people aren’t listening to you. |
| 16:56 | Yes, |
| 16:57 | ha,ha,ha... |
| 16:58 | What do you do? |
| 16:59 | So I was... |
| 17:03 | I was thirty two, |
| 17:04 | I had just been given the Regional head role, which is quite big. |
| 17:09 | and I said in the provincial |
| 17:14 | and advisory board in one of the |
| 17:18 | big corporates I worked for, and in that board |
| 17:22 | I was, I was the youngest |
| 17:25 | and I was the only black female, |
| 17:29 | but there was another black female who was a professor at a varsity, |
| 17:34 | and so there was just two of us in a boardroom, |
| 17:37 | and I've got my board pack, |
| 17:39 | and then I go through my board pack and I would need to talk to my contribution, |
| 17:43 | but came into the boardroom, the board meeting and |
| 17:49 | they got into a section that I needed to contribute to, but |
| 17:54 | Chair was never going to see my hand. |
| 17:56 | Then I put my hand up, Chair was not seeing my hand |
| 18:00 | and I thought, I need to share this. |
| 18:04 | It's very important, and |
| 18:07 | towards the end I actually stood up and apologised for standing up and I said, |
| 18:13 | I'm not sure if I'm too short for Chair, not to see me |
| 18:18 | or maybe I should be on the table so the Chair could see me. |
| 18:24 | But I really, really have a burning issue that I need to put on the table. |
| 18:29 | It changed everything, you know, like, I remember |
| 18:32 | like I'd get into the board meeting Chair would ask, |
| 18:35 | “Zen, what are your thoughts on this?” |
| 18:36 | Ha, ha, ha! “What are your thoughts on this?” |
| 18:39 | So I gave myself a voice |
| 18:42 | because it felt like you are in the space, but you don't have a voice. |
| 18:47 | And now you're doing that |
| 18:48 | for women who are coming after you. |
| 18:53 | You are making sure that they have a voice, they are heard, |
| 18:57 | and they don't have to threaten the Chair, |
| 18:59 | Ha, ha, ha! |
| 19:00 | and stand on a table. |
| 19:02 | Yah, so sometimes when you look at people's personalities, they... |
| 19:09 | some women, some young women that I mentored, |
| 19:11 | have got strong personalities and I've picked on them, |
| 19:15 | you know, specifically because they have so much to offer. |
| 19:18 | So we can miss out because of a strong personality |
| 19:22 | that a lot of people would want to walk away from. |
| 19:25 | So I'm able to come in, I’m able to rein in |
| 19:30 | and just guide the process. |
| 19:33 | But also, my biggest thing is the impact, |
| 19:37 | you know, like I always say, |
| 19:39 | like Julius Nyerere, you know, when he was asked, how do you |
| 19:44 | see proper leadership? |
| 19:46 | like, how can you actually say that you’ve been a great leader, what is it? |
| 19:49 | What are the things that make you see that you've been a great leader? |
| 19:52 | And his response was |
| 19:56 | ‘The leadership that comes after you, |
| 19:58 | does better than what you've done, and the one that comes |
| 20:02 | after the leadership that you were responsible for, |
| 20:05 | they just excel’. |
| 20:06 | So for me, it's our time, but, |
| 20:10 | the people that we give, that we hand the baton over to |
| 20:13 | must do exceptionally better than what we've done, you know, |
| 20:17 | like Mama Charlotte Maxeke, Lillian Ngoyi, they've paved the way, |
| 20:22 | they've done all the great things, and for us |
| 20:25 | but you have to be contemporary, relevant, and move with the times |
| 20:29 | and acknowledge your male counterparts |
| 20:31 | because they can’t be confused about what is happening. |
| 20:33 | They must be part and parcel of this. |
| 20:35 | So that's exactly what I love doing. |
| 20:38 | Well, one of your mentees Nompilo Mtshali, |
| 20:42 | has a message for you, and I'd like to play that as well. |
| 20:45 | Zen you have |
| 20:46 | encouraged me to be an authentic leader. |
| 20:50 | One of my favourite characteristics about you is how authentic you are. |
| 20:55 | I can bump into you on a Monday morning for a coffee catch up, |
| 21:00 | or see you walking with the most senior person in the bank |
| 21:05 | or a graduate that just joined the bank yesterday. |
| 21:09 | You are authentic. |
| 21:10 | You are yourself through and through. |
| 21:13 | I remember when we first started our mentor, mentee relationship, |
| 21:18 | you always encouraged me to show up as Nompilo |
| 21:21 | the best version of myself. |
| 21:24 | You encourage all those around you |
| 21:27 | to show up as the best versions of themselves. |
| 21:31 | Furthermore, you are a leader that leads with kindness, |
| 21:36 | yet you possess so much strength. |
| 21:39 | I can pinpoint a number of instances |
| 21:42 | where you've coached me, coached me with so much kindness, |
| 21:46 | coached me with so much grace. |
| 21:49 | We need leaders in the workplace |
| 21:52 | that act with kindness that are human first. |
| 21:56 | So I want to thank you for inspiring me to be an authentic leader. |
| 22:02 | That is kind, but a leader that possesses so much strength. |
| 22:07 | Oh, wow! |
| 22:08 | Beautiful. It's lovely hey. |
| 22:11 | One of the most amazing, |
| 22:17 | humble |
| 22:18 | and kind individuals |
| 22:22 | that I've come across |
| 22:25 | the utmost respect. |
| 22:27 | You know, she has a Ph.D. |
| 22:28 | You know, she has a Ph.D. |
| 22:30 | She used to be a lecturer at Wits Business School |
| 22:34 | and she moved from that space to join banking. |
| 22:37 | And she just became like, |
| 22:41 | someone like that is quite junior, |
| 22:43 | she thought that |
| 22:45 | maybe I need to start |
| 22:47 | if she could maybe be a teller, for that matter, that’s |
| 22:50 | how she is thinking |
| 22:52 | because she is humble like that, you know, like we had our engagement, |
| 22:57 | we had our sessions I picked up that, oh, wow, this is a diamond. |
| 23:02 | Like proper diamond. |
| 23:05 | It's not even a rough diamond for that matter. |
| 23:07 | You know, it's just a diamond that's lying there, |
| 23:09 | just need to polish it. |
| 23:11 | I always say |
| 23:12 | a girl has to have various tribes, you know, like as |
| 23:16 | as a girl |
| 23:16 | as a woman, you need to have at least a minimum of three tribes. |
| 23:21 | The first tribe is the people that you grew up with. |
| 23:26 | It could be the people you went to school with. |
| 23:29 | And the second tribe, it's |
| 23:31 | it's the people you work with, |
| 23:33 | you know, like the ladies that you can connect with. |
| 23:36 | Tribe means that you've got people that you can connect with quite well. |
| 23:40 | So from school you've got a lot of people, but you can only connect |
| 23:44 | with specific people that understand you, that support you. |
| 23:48 | And a tribe means these are the people that support you. |
| 23:51 | These are the people that will tell you that, |
| 23:54 | Oh, it's not going so right for you. |
| 23:56 | And the same applies when you get to a work or a corporate space. |
| 24:01 | You need to have that tribe as well. |
| 24:03 | And then the third, this is the minimum, by the way. |
| 24:06 | And then the third is the leadership. |
| 24:08 | You know, the woman leaders, you know, the people that you can look up to, |
| 24:12 | the people that you can leverage, |
| 24:14 | the people that will tell you the honest truth |
| 24:17 | without actually blinking, you know, because you are learning from them. |
| 24:22 | So I believe that, I've been... |
| 24:25 | I've sustained myself through having tribes. |
| 24:28 | I have five tribes. |
| 24:29 | Okay, what are the other two? |
| 24:31 | There are two fun tribes, |
| 24:34 | and obviously, the fun tribes, |
| 24:38 | it means that you actually have to let go of everything and, |
| 24:42 | be you and enjoy yourself. |
| 24:44 | And the other tribe is |
| 24:47 | the one that guides you like in terms of academics, |
| 24:50 | like you sit, you talk about the world, you talk about the geopolitics, |
| 24:55 | you talk about where countries are going, |
| 24:58 | you talk about the future, you talk about |
| 25:00 | everything that makes sense. |
| 25:02 | That is a serious tribe, |
| 25:04 | and for me, you have that serious tribe, |
| 25:06 | and that's why I part the two. |
| 25:08 | You've got that serious tribe, then you've got that fun tribe. |
| 25:10 | When I sit with my serious tribe, |
| 25:12 | I have to make sure that I connect with my fun tribe, |
| 25:15 | just to stabilise things, because it is serious. |
| 25:18 | You know what we're going through, globally, |
| 25:20 | there's a lot that's going on. |
| 25:21 | But you need to remember so that you can play. |
| 25:25 | You’ve spoken about the support that your husband |
| 25:29 | has given you, not just in your career now, |
| 25:33 | from when you were a young mom |
| 25:36 | trying to figure out what was happening. |
| 25:39 | Just take me through that. |
| 25:40 | And then when you're doing these high pressure, massive deals, |
| 25:44 | the importance of that support. |
| 25:46 | Yeah, a family, very strong on family, he believes that |
| 25:51 | everyone should have a family |
| 25:53 | and his whole is family, |
| 25:56 | his kids, myself. |
| 25:58 | And yes, we have the extras, but me |
| 26:01 | and the kids are his world, |
| 26:04 | and supported me as I was studying |
| 26:08 | because I was doing it as a mother and as a wife. |
| 26:12 | I would come back, |
| 26:13 | I remember studying analytical techniques, you know, like you call it statistics, |
| 26:17 | and it was like shaking me. |
| 26:20 | So I'd sit with him and this is... |
| 26:23 | Okay, fine, explain to me where your challenged, |
| 26:25 | and I'll take him through like a specific area, like maybe |
| 26:29 | distribution or calculus, and then he'll sit me down and actually |
| 26:34 | take me through, like, specific pointers to look out for. |
| 26:38 | And when I was writing exams, he'd come and, |
| 26:40 | like the biggest cheerleader for me, biggest, biggest cheerleader. |
| 26:44 | So he's been there, |
| 26:45 | when I'm working on a deal, I get home, I'll be like, tense, |
| 26:50 | you know, I'm sitting there, he says, “Don’t talk to Nene”, |
| 26:52 | they call me Nene, |
| 26:53 | “Don’t talk to Nene”, |
| 26:55 | “It's hectic like let's give her some space”. |
| 26:58 | He will give me space. |
| 26:59 | And like, when I'm losing it, I'll ask him. |
| 27:01 | “So what do you think? |
| 27:03 | Should I argue this?” |
| 27:05 | “Argue you what you need to argue, |
| 27:06 | If there's no need to argue, trust the process it will happen”, so, |
| 27:10 | he has actually given me support like in that space, |
| 27:14 | even with family, you know, like my siblings. |
| 27:16 | He said, “No, you're a baby, |
| 27:19 | Yeah, you're the baby”, |
| 27:20 | allow the sister to be the sister, |
| 27:22 | so I'll be the baby. |
| 27:23 | And yeah, amazing, amazing. |
| 27:26 | Zen Dlamini, |
| 27:26 | thank you so much for your time on Why She Leads. |
| 27:29 | It's been such an incredible privilege learning from the lessons |
| 27:34 | that you have learned as you progressed in your journey |
| 27:36 | as you've climbed the corporate ladder. |
| 27:38 | Thank you so much for being so generous with your time |
| 27:40 | and the lessons that you’ve learned. Really, really appreciate it. |
| 27:43 | Thank you Nzinga, and thank you, gorgeous African woman. |
| 27:47 | It's been an absolute pleasure talking to you. |
| 27:49 | And yeah, just reflecting on all these things. |
| 27:52 | Sometimes you forget the little things that make a difference. |
| 27:56 | So, yeah, thanks for reminding me. |
| 27:58 | I feel like I got a crash course in mentoring, |
| 28:01 | from the incredible journey that you've had and the lessons, |
| 28:03 | I’m so, so grateful. Really. |
| 28:05 | Thanks Nzinga, I think you're amazing. |
| 28:08 | I think you’re great, |
| 28:09 | Thank you. |
| 28:09 | Keep shining. |
| 28:10 | Thank you, |
